Live From Destinations International: A Canadian Perspective on Destination Stewardship

Intro: Recorded live from the Destinations International Convention in Tampa, Florida, welcome to Brand USA Talks Travel. This year's Destinations International Annual Convention promises to ignite your passion and fuel your growth, and we'll plug you into all the visionary leaders making that possible. Now here's your host, Mark Lapidus. 

Mark Lapidus [0:20]: What is the most annoying thing that Americans do with Canadians? 

Michael Crockatt [0:24]: "Hey, do you know my cousin Bob from Toronto?" 

Mary Sayewich [0:26]: "I know somebody who lives in Calgary, is that close to Ottawa?" 

Kelly Haussler [0:29]: "Do you see bears outside your window every single day?" 

Mark Lapidus [0:32]: And we're going international for this episode of Brand USA Talks Travel: we have some guests from Ottawa Tourism. Michael Crockatt is the President and CEO, Kelly Haussler is Director of Destination Development and Mary Sayewich is Ottawa Tourism's Director of Strategy and Project Management. Welcome to Brand USA Talks Travel, very excited to have you here. 

Kelly Haussler [0:51]: Thanks for having us. 

Mark Lapidus [0:52]: Michael, as a Canadian DMO leader, what do you think U.S. destinations often overlook when trying to attract Canadian visitors? What do we do wrong? 

Michael Crockatt [1:00]: I don't know if there's anything wrong that's done. I think there's some cool things about the relationship between our countries though, too, that make Canadians a real smart market for U.S. destinations, too. For instance, I know my first time going to a place like New York or L.A., I felt so comfortable because I'd been exposed to these places so much on television and in movies, that as soon as I was walking on the streets in New York, I knew where everything was. I knew what all the buildings were, I knew where I was in the city. And same in L.A., like, it's an amazing relationship that our two countries have, and I think that it's probably very unique in the world, too. 

Mary Sayewich [1:31]: One of the most incredible luxuries for Canadians looking to the U.S. for travel destinations is just the incredible variety that you have to offer down here, in terms of different experiences. 

Mark Lapidus [1:40]: That's good, because that's what we say. 

Mary Sayewich [1:41]: Oh, good. Whether it's outdoor adventure at the National Parks or you're looking for an urban experience, there's just so much to choose from in our neighbors to the south. So we really are spoiled for choice when we look down south of the border for options. 

Michael Crockatt [1:54]: There are some things that we're more aware of, I think, than the typical U.S. destination might be; things like exchange rate, for example. And it does make it a little more costly sometimes for Canadians to travel to the U.S., and even things like flight costs as well. It's more expensive to travel to and from and within Canada than it is in the U.S., just by nature of different regulations in the two countries, too. 

Kelly Haussler [2:13]: Just on that flight piece, having that direct access and being such close neighbors does make it very appealing as Canadians, because, to Mary's point, being spoiled for choice in terms of those activities and experiences that aren't super far away, and that's very appealing. 

Michael Crockatt [2:27]: Another unique part of the relationship between Canada and the United States is that we are friends. There's a very close friendship between our two countries extends to all parts of our economies and our cultures. And so I think that's something that should be taken advantage of on both sides of the border as well, where we can be dealing as friends with one another, and not quite as one market, but certainly as a very, very integrated friendship market as well. 

Mark Lapidus [2:49]: Amen to that. Your session topic here at Destinations International is "Destination stewardship: effectively integrating planning and action." What does stewardship mean in the context of tourism to you? 

Michael Crockatt [3:00]: The nice thing about the connotation of the word 'stewardship' is it's about caring for our destination. We started out doing a master plan, and early on we realized that's not the right word for what we're doing, because we're not the ones who are the masters of our destination. We're not the ones telling all of our other partners and stakeholders in the community what they should be doing to help us achieve some long-term tourism goals. So stewardship has that connotation of working together as a community, understanding we're not the masters, we're all stewards of our destination, and working together for that long-term betterment of the tourism industry of our sector, but more importantly, of our community, and looking to generate more community prosperity as well. So it's a strong word, we think, that really does talk about how we view our destination. 

Mark Lapidus [3:43]: Is this a relatively new approach, or have you been taking this tack for a long time? 

Michael Crockatt [3:47]: Using the word stewardship in this way is relatively new for us, really only in the last couple of years since we launched the stewardship plan. So, yeah, it's new, but it's one that's really helped us in the community as well. 

Mark Lapidus [3:56]: How did the idea surface? 

Michael Crockatt [3:57]: It was actually during the initial steps of the work we were doing, calling it a tourism master plan at the time, and in conjunction with an organizational strategic plan and working with our partners at Resonance. They're the ones who said, you know, you aren't really the masters. No one's really the master of the destination. No one is the overseer of everything in the destination. And in order to get buy in from the community, it really helped to change that connotation to stewardship, which really does put some of the onus on everybody for the thinking about the destination. But maybe more importantly, now is on the execution. Everybody has a role to play in helping us get to our long-term, ten year goals in this area. 

Mark Lapidus [4:30]: I'm curious as to who your biggest partners are locally. 

Kelly Haussler [4:33]: When we were developing this plan, it was really important to one realize what we were hoping to achieve as part of the plan, and who was going to help us get there. And so picking those partners and stakeholders in our city that maybe had big infrastructure assets that could be really valuable in helping to realize this ten-year vision for our destination. So these are federal players, these are local players that really just had that influence that we were looking for. And we built our steering committee around that, just to ensure that we got that buy in at the end of the day, and make sure that we could really implement this in the way that we wanted to, and didn't create something that just sat on a shelf. 

Michael Crockatt [5:06]: Ottawa is a complicated place. It's the capital city, but it's also right on the border between two provinces. So we have two cities, two provinces, two languages. We also have the federal government presence there in a very significant way - in land ownership, but also even in things like several police forces within the community as well. So lots of stakeholders do need to get involved in tourism initiatives. And as Kelly said, we're very fortunate to have had a lot of great participation in the planning process here, too. 

Mark Lapidus [5:31]: What advice would you give to other destinations that might be interested in exploring this stewardship journey? 

Kelly Haussler [5:37]: Making sure you have the right people at the table right at the beginning. That's so, so important to being able to realize that vision and understanding the various types of engagement and consultation you should be having. Because we've got a lot of great voices within our communities. Some are more vocal than others, but what are the ones that are going to really be able to help you realize that vision for your destination? So really just finding those key players right off the bat, starting those relationships early on to get that initial buy in and help to implement your plan in the way that you hope. 

Mark Lapidus [6:06]: Like so many things we do in tourism, I'm sure this affects both visitors and local residents. 

Michael Crockatt [6:11]: I'll give you one aspect of that for sure. And even something like air access, where any new incremental flight that's coming to our community is very beneficial for bringing new visitors. But it's also equally good on the outbound side for residents to be going for business travel, but for pleasure as well. So air access is critical for growth from a destination; also critical for the economic development of our community, too. 

Mark Lapidus [6:32]: To gain more lift, you have to have business travel and recreational travel. Otherwise you just, you don't get there. I mean, it's true for everybody around the world, I think. 

Mary Sayewich [6:40]: We're also seeing a lot of intersection with this plan that is bringing our role out of just sales and marketing function as the destination marketing organization. When we look to the stewardship plan, it outlines things like valuing sustainability, valuing being involved in the community. And we've seen that translate into our strategic plan as an organization, and some of the things that we've been taking on as well. And one of those initiatives that we've recently launched is a partnership with an organization called La Tablée des Chefs, and they focus on food recovery of excess edible food from conferences and major events. And we've been working with them and several of our big partners in the conference and event space, and also our sports arenas, to help move some of that food from those venues into the community, getting them into organizations that can get them to people who are able to make use of it and keep it out of the landfills. And that's something that's trickling into our community and letting tourism be a force for good in our community as well. 

Kelly Haussler [7:30]: Being in destination development - that's my role - yes, we're focused on improving the in-destination visitor experience, but when you're visiting a destination, you want to feel welcomed. You need to have the residents on your side, and you want to be building a destination that isn't just a great place to visit, but a great place to live, work, study. And so it is really, I think, crucial to have that residents' piece. And when we were working on the stewardship plan, we not only did a visitor study, but we did a resident study. And it was really interesting to see how many parallels there were in the needs and wants of our residents and our visitors, and giving us something that we could collectively work towards that kind of benefits everyone. Using tourism to create that community prosperity that we, as destinations, are always looking for. 

Mark Lapidus [8:11]: Do you educate the locals in a certain way to prepare them for tourism? 

Kelly Haussler [8:14]: We do try and talk about tourism whenever we can. You know, in local media, we speak at different local events when we can. While it's not directly to residents, we do have a frontline customer service program called Shine On that just educates all of the tourism industry within Ottawa on great customer service best practices. But I think it's really just finding those natural opportunities to talk about tourism. And many destinations have seen, as a result of the pandemic, just that resident awareness of the importance of tourism. Because we had a time where we didn't have it, we weren't able to welcome anyone in. So we just try and take advantage of all those opportunities that we can, plus having those just regular surveys help as well. 

Mark Lapidus [8:55]: How do you balance the sometimes competing interests of tourism growth and community well-being in this stewardship approach? 

Michael Crockatt [9:01]: One of the things that's fortunate for us is that we do have a very supportive set of local partners. For instance, our mayor is very supportive of tourism; our city council, most of our city staff are very supportive of what tourism is and what it brings to the community as well. And one of the things we try to do is be as engaged as we can with those groups, with the city, with other economic development partners in the community, helping them to see the value and understand the value that visitors bring to our economy and the net benefit of that as well. So again, we're in a lucky situation in Ottawa, because we do have that support, but it's also something we have to keep working at. It's something that can be fragile, and we know that we've got to maintain those relationships and continue to do the right things, too. 

Mark Lapidus [9:40]: So no podcast would be complete if we didn't talk about key performance indicators. How do you measure success? 

Mary Sayewich [9:46]: We do this in a couple of different ways when we're talking about both our strategic plan as an organization, but then also when we look to the stewardship plan in our organization, we do have a set of traditional KPI's that are tied to our performance metrics and our strategic plan, and we report those back to our stakeholders. But we've also really been focusing on sharing the stories of our successes, and driving that story of success through the narrative that we're sharing about wins towards our strategic plan and also our destination stewardship plan. We're also only a year and a half into this ten-year plan, so it's hard at this point to tell this big story about the success and look to the end goal. But we do have pieces that we're able to share. Whether we're talking about new flights that have added routes to our community, or the work that our downtown revitalization task force has been doing towards focusing on some key areas of our downtown that need a bit of attention, we're really able to talk about the successes of that and share those in the form of narrative. And we have a tracker that we share publicly with our community that highlights some of our wins so far, and also some of the things that we're working on and the partners that are helping us to get there. 

Mark Lapidus [10:45]: Are indigenous people part of your plan? 

Kelly Haussler [10:47]: Yes. One of our key focus areas actually in the plan is related to indigenous, and indigenous tourism development is something that we're very passionate about that's very important to our destination as a whole. And the Indigenous Tourism Association of Canada has a really good saying of, "Nothing about us without us." 

Mark Lapidus [11:04]: I like that. 

Kelly Haussler [11:04]: Yeah, we've taken that really to heart, and so through this plan, through the work, even with our strategic plan, creating those new connections within to our local indigenous communities on which Ottawa resides. And we've actually created an indigenous tourism advisory circle to help guide what type of work we want to be doing in that indigenous space. And we even recently hired an indigenous tourism liaison to just further reinforce how important this is for us and to forge those relationships that are going to be so important to grow this really important area that we also know is appealing for visitors, and important for Canada as one of the things we can offer. 

Mark Lapidus [11:39]: I want to ask you something that's a little bit off-topic, but is one of my passions, which is content. Tell me about your content approach. 

Michael Crockatt [11:45]: I think what visitors want to understand is what really is the identity and the DNA of a destination. And we've got dedicated content teams that are helping to do that for our target audiences that are different segments of the market, domestically, internationally, helping to tell the stories that what an experience in Ottawa is really going to be like. And so it's a fantastic tool for us to make sure that we're putting out the information out there that's relevant for visitors or potential visitors, but it also helps us in the other parts of our business. Things like business events and sport events, because we can tell the stories of, you know, what an inclusive sport event looked like in our community that helps us, then, work with another inclusive sporting organization to help bring their event here, knowing the type of experience that they can have in Ottawa as well. So content marketing, content management, and just having that information out there for people, and also having it out there in multiple languages helps as well. So we focus on a lot of those things for sure, Mark. 

Mark Lapidus [12:33]: I know for a fact that multiple languages get expensive, because we do it in eight, at minimum, when we do content. So you have to have a significant translations budget in order to do that. One of the things I'm dreaming about right now is how artificial intelligence might actually affect this. The promise is certainly out there, and if an LLM can do anything, it's language, and I keep waiting for this to happen. Especially for our television network - we just launched in Spanish, by the way, but it was expensive, and I'm hoping that it's going to get to the point where we can launch in any language we want, with AI actually doing the work. A friend of mine sent me a clip of him speaking Japanese, and it was in his voice, and it was moving with his mouth. Have you seen it? 

Kelly Haussler [13:14]: I have seen it, and it's very, very cool. 

Mark Lapidus [13:16]: So far, they haven't been able to do it with multiple characters. That's a problem. So if you're doing a television show or short video and you want to do it multiple languages with various characters in the storyline, you can't do it quite yet. But I am hoping, in fact, I pray a little bit about it every day. 

Michael Crockatt [13:32]: I can't wait to see what the multiple language version of this broadcast looks like. 

Mark Lapidus [13:35]: Absolutely. Why not? We could be doing it in Chinese. I'd like to hear myself speaking Chinese, that would be fun. Is there any given platform that performs better for you than another? For example, is social media better than your website, or video you push online more successful? 

Michael Crockatt [13:52]: It's a different answer for different audiences, too. We're using, for instance, LinkedIn a lot more to inform what's happening on the business event side of things in our organization, in our destination. But I don't think anything right now beats Instagram for the photographic beauty of our city and the key landmarks, but also the fun festivals and events that are taking place. Like, that's a pretty broad audience that we can reach with Instagram. And even TikTok has been beneficial for us, too, but also depends on meeting the target audience where they are. Different target audiences for us use different platforms, too. 

Mark Lapidus [14:19]: So I'd love to hear some highlights from the different sessions you've attended here at DI. 

Kelly Haussler [14:23]: This isn't my first DI- 

Mark Lapidus [14:24]: "Not my first rodeo," as we say in America. 

Kelly Haussler [14:28]: Right? I always look forward to the Miles Partnership session, with normally the different global leaders at the end of day one. And I really loved Tahiti Tourism, just talking about the work that they're doing in the strategic plan that they've created. And I was really interested to see their approach to overtourism. Ottawa, at this point, we don't have that challenge, but we've seen across the world, even right now, a lot of those challenges related to overtourism. And so the fact that they have this approach of "one resident, one visitor," that's the max that they're going to have right now, to reassess in 2027. 

Mark Lapidus [15:01]: How do they control that? 

Kelly Haussler [15:02]: I guess because they're an island, you can control a number. But I thought that was a really different approach that I hadn't heard of before, to just trying to manage a challenge that many destinations are facing. And it will be interesting to see, come 2027, how they adapt that or if they keep that. But I found that one particularly interesting. 

Mark Lapidus [15:19]: Mary, what did you enjoy? 

Mary Sayewich [15:20]: It's been really nice to see this year, as Kelly said, this is not our first time at DI, but we really have noticed an increased focus on international, and particularly Canadian content. There's been a lot of our Canadian counterparts speaking on topics that are really relevant to our destination, and to see that as part of the bigger mix at DI has been really nice this year, and it's been great to see Canadian perspectives and also international perspectives really highlighted throughout the content. 

Michael Crockatt [15:43]: To me, the keynotes have been fantastic, the breakouts have been fantastic. But I think typically, and this week is no exception, the most value is still from the individual conversations with peers and counterparts from around the world. And I'll give you an example, I was at the global dinner that took place earlier this week with counterparts of mine from around the world. And, you know, sometimes you go into that wondering how much you're going to have in common with someone from the other side of the world - and the conversations just never stop, because we do have so many things that we can learn from one another. I learned things from people from almost every continent, but what they're doing to address some of the challenges that we even have in our destination. So the value of bringing together people in our industry like this is absolutely incredible. So an event like this annual convention brings us a lot of value as an organization, for sure. 

Mark Lapidus [16:27]: We also have an advantage in that we all speak English. I was at a convention not many years ago in Brussels, and I was just astounded how good the English was for all the Europeans. Nobody had any trouble at all. And I remember speaking to one guy from Slovenia who had never been to either Canada or the United States, and his English was so good, I couldn't even understand how he did it. And basically he grew up speaking English in school. So, I mean, it is an edge I think we have over the rest of the world, is that our language is spoken everywhere. 

Michael Crockatt [16:56]: It's almost the language of business, too. 

Mark Lapidus [16:57]: We've got so many tourists going back and forth between Canada and the United States. What improvements do you think we should make? 

Michael Crockatt [17:03]: I do think that there are things that we - the bigger 'we' here, in terms of our two countries - need to continue to focus on, because there still can be a lot of friction in the travel journey between Canada and the United States. Because there's still a border there; there's still risks that both governments identify in terms of people and goods crossing that border at any connecting airport, for example. That can be the thing that really causes some of the challenges in terms of the transportation between our two countries. And there's delays at land border crossings, of course, as well. But that air journey, because everything is timed for those connections, so to make the connection process in each international connecting airport as smooth as possible. And that's both sides, because there's both directions there. So investments in things like Global Entry - and in Canada, you have the Nexus program as well - those things are doing some things to help identify trusted travelers so that the system can be smoother and easier. I think the more people we get enrolled in those programs, the better. The more the infrastructure at airports is set up to accommodate that smooth transition like that, the better. But it is something that has to be a coordinated approach between both countries, and I think if we identify tourism and travel as a priority for both of our economies, that's something that can hopefully come along with that is even more improvements in that traveler's journey. 

Mark Lapidus [18:14]: Kelly? 

Kelly Haussler [18:14]: Yeah, so just kind of building on top of what Michael said, too, and that ease in the traveler journey, I think many destinations did lose a lot of flights as a result of the pandemic, and trying to bring some of those direct connections back, we've all seen just the wild weather can really impact those flights. So being able to have one stopover, or none, to just make that journey a bit more seamless, I think, is something that people are looking for, to just not have too many impacts on their travel plans, which can sometimes happen. So bringing back that kind of more robust air access and direct connectivity is something that we're passionate about, too. 

Mark Lapidus [18:47]: We talk about frictionless travel all the time. It is one of our initiatives, something we all think about, dream about. We don't know how we're going to get there. U.S. Travel actually works on it a lot in the United States. Do you have an entity in Canada that does the same? 

Michael Crockatt [19:02]: Yeah, our version would be the Tourism Industry Association of Canada. They're very much the same type of organization, advocacy on behalf of the travel sector, and they do a wonderful job the same way that U.S. Travel does. 

Mark Lapidus [19:11]: We're trying to get to the point where you don't have to take your shoes off, ever, or worry about carrying liquids on airplanes. Do you have that in Canada when you're flying domestic? 

Michael Crockatt [19:19]: Not the shoes, but definitely the liquids. Yeah. 

Kelly Haussler [19:21]: I did see somewhere this, like, futuristic look of travel, and it was basically just someone walking down a hallway, and they were scanning your passport, they were checking your bags, and I don't know if we can get to that, but I would love to just walk down a hallway and have cleared customs and done all of those things. So maybe AI can help with that, I don't know, but that would be real frictionless travel. Mark Lapidus [19:41]: I think the only time I've ever experienced that is with Global Entry, is I've come back, actually, from Canada into the United States, and just flattened my passport on the scanner and just walked in the country. And first time I did it, it felt really weird. 

Michael Crockatt [19:54]: And sometimes you don't even need your passport anymore; it's just facial recognition. 

Mark Lapidus [19:57]: I haven't seen that yet. 

Michael Crockatt [19:58]: We're getting there. We're getting there. 

Mark Lapidus [20:00]: Well, let's keep working on it. It was such a pleasure having you all on the podcast. Thanks for joining me and sharing your insights. 

Kelly Haussler [20:05]: Thank you so much for having us. It's been a pleasure. 

Mary Sayewich [20:08]: Thank you so much. 

Michael Crockatt [20:09]: Thank you. 

Mark Lapidus [20:10]: And that's it for Brand USA Talks Travel, live from Tampa, Florida at Destination International's Annual Conference. More episodes to follow. I'm Mark Lapidus, thanks for listening. Outro [20:19]: If you enjoyed this Live From Destinations International episode, please share it with your friends in the travel industry. Production and music by Asher Meerovich. Media producer, Nthanze Kariuki, with assistance from Casey D'Ambra. Engineering, Brian Watkins, Kat Pommer, and Antonio Tyler. Art by Mimi Jung. Special thanks to Alexis Adelson, Phil Dickieson, Peter Dodge, and Colleen Mangone. More Live From Destinations International episodes coming soon. Safe travels!

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