Live From Travel Week: Discover Diverse Perspectives in Travel Storytelling

Intro: Giving you exclusive access to the minds of industry leaders in this special edition of Brand USA Talks Travel, recorded live in London. Brand USA Travel Week, hosted in U.K. and Europe, brings together key players in the U.S., U.K., and European travel industry to discuss trends, challenges, innovations, and the opportunity to drive future visitation to the United States. Here's your host, Mark Lapidus. 

Mark Lapidus [0:27]: What's it like to navigate the world as a person of color, someone with a disability, or a member of the LGBTQ+ community? In this panel discussion, we explore how sharing experiences from different backgrounds and perspectives isn't just about seeing new places, but about rethinking how we connect with the world and each other. Now, here's your moderator, Kav Dadfar. 

Kav Dadfar [0:51]: Hello, everyone. We've got a fantastic panel today, and we're going to be discussing diversity in storytelling. And really the heart of this conversation is the powerful role that diverse voices and stories play in inspiring a more inclusive and equitable travel landscape. The stories we tell, and just as importantly, who tells them, greatly influence how we and others understand the world around us. By embracing narratives from storytellers of diverse racial backgrounds, LGBTQ+ communities, indigenous people, and individuals with disabilities, we foster a greater sense of compassion, understanding, and inclusivity. Today, we're going to explore some of these perspectives and how they can transform the travel experience into something more welcoming and accessible for all. We're going to look at how diverse stories break down barriers, challenge stereotypes, and ensure that every traveler, no matter their identity, can feel seen, respected, and valued. We've got a fantastic panel, and they will share their insights on how the travel industry can support these stories, and what steps we can take to ensure that travel travel is not only a journey, but an inclusive experience for everyone. So on the panel today, we have Rashmi Narayan, who's a freelance journalist based in the U.K.

We have Ben Pechey, a nonbinary author, TEDx speaker, LGBT+ educator, and DEI consultant. And we have Gerda van't Land, founder of Accessible Dutch Tour Operator - and this is the hardest word I'll say all week - Boetenhouwen. Is that good? 

Gerda van't Land [02:25]: Almost 

Kav Dadfar [02:25]: Ryson. So thank you for joining us. My name is Kav Dadfar, I'm the founding editor of a U.K. travel magazine called JRNY. So, let's get straight in. Thank you for joining us. Before we start, I'd like to ask the panel how they would like to identify during these discussions. So if I start with you, Gerda? 

Gerda van't Land [02:43]: Just as Gerda, actually. I'm an accessible traveler, actually, since I'm 14, when I was paralyzed in a car accident. 

Kav Dadfar [02:51]: And Rashmi? 

Rashmi Narayan [02:52]: That's Rashmi, and yeah. My pronouns are she/her, and, yeah. Freelance travel writer. 

Kav Dadfar [02:58]: Fantastic. Ben? 

Ben Pechey [03:00]: My name's Ben. My pronouns are they/them, and I'm a trans nonbinary multi-hyphenate. There's not anything that I don't do, basically. So if you have a check, I have a skill. 

Kav Dadfar [03:11]: Fantastic. Fantastic. 

Ben Pechey [03:13]: Don't tell my agent I said that. 

Kav Dadfar [03:16]: And Ben, actually, I just wanted to follow up with that. Why is that an important question to ask when we are talking about diversity / inclusivity? 

Ben Pechey [03:23]: So when we talk about diversity, I think one of the words that we're not saying but we're implicitly meaning is safety and belonging. And when we feel seen and comfortable and recognized for who we are, we bring our best. Diversity is one of the massive drivers in business across the world - and I hate to use money as a driver, but it usually helps as the first bit of conversation. But it makes a difference. If you feel like you are safe, and that you belong, you bring more of yourself. And the only way we can have diverse storytelling is if people feel comfortable to show up as themselves. And so it's a huge part; there is no conversation if you don't start that conversation. 

Kav Dadfar [04:02]: Fantastic. Well, I think that's a really great way to just start and for everyone to take a note of that, I think, it starts. Let's sort of move on to the stories. So why is it important to ensure that we have diversity in travel in the stories that we tell, but more specifically, in the context of the U.S? So, Rashmi, I'll ask you first. You travel to the U.S. a lot. 

Rashmi Narayan [04:21]: Thank you. I think we need to start questioning how history is taught, because that in itself is quite warped in, you know, what's taught in school. Maybe draw the differences with how cities perceive diversity to how the smaller towns perceive that. Because as a person of color, I could feel safe going to Washington, New York, and all of that, but there's so much small look at how big the U.S. is, right? I want to start exploring all of that, but there is an element of hesitation where it's like, will I be welcome? Is it safe? And all of that, A, as a woman, and B, as a woman of color. So we start with how history is taught, and then I think we need to start looking into how terminology is used, as well, to what people perceive as settlers, to what were actually colonizers, to all of that. We start questioning it when we are traveling, because it's very important. And I think slowly but surely there is a slow transition into how those stories are being told, especially in my line of work and seeing a lot of editors sort of find those elements into, okay, you went to this state, how different was it from the north to the south? 

How welcoming was it? Did you find a difference with how Creole people find this to how the indigenous communities are recognized? There is a slow transition. Slow, for sure, but it's so refreshing to see what's happening now than what was not happening even 10 years ago. So, yeah, I mean, I want to draw in on your experiences as well with that. 

Kav Dadfar [05:42]: And, Ben, why is it important to have diversity in the travel stories that we tell? 

Ben Pechey [05:46]: I think it's important to feel represented. I mean, it's a different story, I mean, we're all sat on this panel. How many times have you seen yourself in travel literature? Have you ever seen yourself represented in travel literature? You know, like, if I can't see myself somewhere, I don't know if I could go there. The ifs, ands and buts associated with travel, and going somewhere that's a long way from your comfort zone, that might be too much for someone. And so if you can bridge the gap between "maybe" to "I should," diverse storytelling will plug that gap and answer some of our questions, I guess? 

Kav Dadfar [06:25]: From a slightly different angle, why is it important to have these diverse stories in terms of, you know, looking at experiences and tours and those types of elements? 

Gerda van't Land [06:33]: I think the awareness is so important. And I can see the change; I'm a wheelchair user, a female wheelchair user, and I traveled a lot also on my own since 1974, so that's a while ago. But I could see the change by then. I think I was the second generation that could stay alive. And then if you compare that with the travel industry, we had to head up later, much later than the regular travel industry. But in the beginning, there was no need, I think, for accessibility, because it wasn't there. And I think the U.S. did a very, very big thing in the '70s with the ADA law that there was, and I can be jealous on that, because in the Netherlands, for example, nobody went to our government to ask for this very important law. And because they did with so many people, if I'm right, it was in Chicago, with so many people, so many wheelchair users or people with disabilities went there and asked for this. And that's the reason why it was in the mindset of a lot of Americans, I believe so. And Europe had to catch up. So later, much later, Europe catched up. 

But we need to ask for awareness every day, because when Europe catched up, then the U.S. was lower in this case, because they thought that everything was good, accessible, but it wasn't. So we have a way to go. 

Kav Dadfar [07:57]: Of course. Of course. And something you touched on there, which is actually, you know, from your experiences, that changes your perceptions of destination and also how you actually tell those stories. So, Ben, I'm going to come to you with the next one. Does your background, you know, wherever you're from, whatever your sort of background is, does that influence the way you tell those stories, the travel narratives? 

Ben Pechey [08:16]: Immensely. You can't not. We're all the stories that have made us who we are. So it can't help but influence who and what matters to you. I think when you work in the diversity space, we were talking that our intersections cross over. And so it matters immensely to me. And so, it's interesting, even when your needs are met, I still ask for more. I still want more. And I think that's, maybe, everyone's trying to catch up, but there's never a point where you should say, we're done for now; there's always more that you could do. And there will always be environments that something will throw you, something will remind you that more needs to be done. And so, of course, who and what we are as people, it can't help but influence and how we experience that. 

Kav Dadfar [08:59]: Yeah. And, Rashmi, I know we've spoken many times about this, and how does it influence your experience in your writing and your travel stories? 

Rashmi Narayan [09:06]: I have an example of that. I was in Seattle recently, and I was told how there's more of an empathetic viewpoint from one of the people I'd interviewed who were from the indigenous communities. And that really struck a chord with me, because he said, well, you were born and raised in India. I said, yeah. So he said, how do you view survival and oppression? These words in storytelling are so important, because if you're looking at it from just purely one perspective, it's not as simple as that, because coming from an Indian background, where even our history is so varied and warped, and obviously a great sense of empire and oppression, speaking to somebody on the other side in the state of Washington really struck a chord where I said, this is how I'm going to tell the story: do justice to how they perceive it, and bring out that message of what they're saying, that they're still here fighting all the odds. And it was so impressive to see that you can have your own background brought into the story and still do it justice. And it was similar even in Kentucky, where a small museum where we were talking about enslaved ancestry. 

And the gentleman said, he said, the way I see the Liberty Bell in the U.S. which stands for so much, and given the anniversary coming up, is so different as a black man, to what people from the U.S. with that national pride see it. And then he said, how do you see it being Indian? And it started getting me thinking, and there's so many responsibilities we all need to bear. But as somebody from India who comes from a very, very different world, who understands, maybe not fully, but to some extent what people have gone through and how much their story matters, it's really affected the way I tell a story. For sure. 

Kav Dadfar [10:36]: Yeah, of course. And so do you think that having these multiple perspectives can actually change people's perceptions of a destination? You spoke earlier about, you know, certain places where you may feel not like you're not welcome there. Do you think that if there's enough of these different perspectives, it can shift people's perceptions of those? 

Rashmi Narayan [10:53]: Absolutely, and I think one more thing people need to keep in mind, which is something that happened not very long ago, was how films portray these communities. You know, and we need to start questioning, okay, you can't just do a TikTok of, oh, I went to this museum, saw how indigenous stories are told. Why can't you question how much of ownership is there within the indigenous communities? How much do they own - people from enslaved backgrounds? How much of black ownership is there? So we have amazing initiatives by Boston, Charleston, Seattle, so many of them that are driving that force and telling these stories. But as travelers, we have that responsibility of taking that step back and see where they're coming from, and understand that films have portrayed them as teepee tents, and India with slums - put that narrative out of your head. Go with a blank canvas, see what they're saying, listen, and then come back feeling like you've learned something. 

Kav Dadfar [11:44]: Fantastic, yeah. And, Ben, do you think that multiple perspectives can change people's perceptions of destinations? 

Ben Pechey [11:50]: 100%. The richer perspective, the more in-depth the perspective. You know, it's really interesting when you consider, when you travel, it's not just where you're going, it's also where you come from. And it's, how do you treat a new place and the stories that connect? You know, I have, my past family is Jewish, and we're not Holocaust survivors. There's very few of us that did survive. And so one of my instincts, when things are difficult, I have an instinct to run. And if you speak to other people that have sort of grown up from those communities, it's ingrained in us. And so when you travel, you realize you have a great privilege, because not only are you here in that moment, but you represent something that survived. And so that then leads into your storytelling. And I think perhaps my empathy connects for my community because I want everyone to survive. I don't think we often stop to think about the privilege of getting on a plane and going somewhere and going beautiful, you know, I know there are so many political things in the world that we can't talk about. But hold those in your mind and remember it's not just another day, it's a gift and an opportunity. 

So the richness of that comes through diverse storytellings. The more that connects, and our backgrounds are very different, but you realize that there are things that you can pull out, and that connects you. And that is what makes storytelling just words, and it becomes something that connects and actually it tells much more of a story, I think. 

Kav Dadfar [13:13]: It's a really interesting point, and it's probably something we can keep talking about for the rest of today. I'm just going to move the conversation on a little bit. Every single person in this room has obviously had eye-opening moments throughout their travels. Could you share with us some that have impacted you, and how they've shaped your sort of perceptions, but also how you've kind of now come across as a storyteller - or, Gerda as we spoke, you kind of creating experiences and tours. 

Gerda van't Land [13:38]: Yeah. If you experienced, yourself, travel and meeting other people, I think, like meeting cultures, meeting people is so important, it has always to do with two: you have the people where you go to and you have yourself. It's not one direction. So I think connection is a very important thing. And if you have the feeling that there is a great hospitality - what I can find here in London, but also in the U.S. in a lot of places - I think then you are somewhere. But sometimes you have to adjust for yourself, because you're not an able-bodied person, like, I think it's a good example from what just happened when we all had to go out of the building as soon as possible. I was waiting here, and somebody came to me that was very, very nice. And you all said, do we have to wait? No, you can do your own thing. But for me it was the first time that I had to bring down like four [floors]. And you know, you have to let it go, but it's so strange that you are not in control anymore. So everybody was just walking out. And that's also stressful, I think, because you don't know what's happening. 

But for me, I felt sorry for the guys that had to bring me down, because they were sweating and it was very heavy. But it's strange, because you know that you cannot use the elevator. So it brought me back to, like, if you're in a hotel on the 11th floor, how do they handle? And to be honest, London is the only place on earth, as far as I know, in all my traveling, that do a sort of interview with you. If you're staying here, then wait in your room, somebody will come there. And that's, I think, very good to give to the U.S. to take that in mind, how important it is to ask them, do you want to be on a lower floor or higher floor? But somebody will take care of you. 

Kav Dadfar [15:19]: And I think from our side, I mean, it really puts it in perspective, doesn't it, that you almost have to leave someone behind, because we had to just walk out. And you don't know, you know, if that person's coming down, you don't know if that person's being seen to. So I think having that sort of, like you said, the person who, you know is being taken care of by someone who is responsible for that, can only be a good thing, right? Rashmi, any standout moments, anything that you could share with us have impacted you. 

Rashmi Narayan [15:43]: Yeah, I have this habit of saying, "I understand," you know, thinking I'm empathetic. Not until I went to this museum - again, middle of nowhere, and it was this man who had his own personal artifacts and collected it from across, and it was all about enslaved history. And then I said, yeah, this is terrifying. And, you know, he asked somebody to bring some chains. And I was like, okay, what's going on here? He said, put your hands out. I said, fine. And he put chains on me. And he said, now just take one step forward. And we did. And he said, how does that feel? I said, terrifying. He said, this is how my ancestors were brought into this country. It's like a bolt of thunder. You know, you don't ever experience that. We don't have museums here in the U.K. that do that. I understand it's harrowing, but it was that sort of practical tool that sort of brought it all to life on how you can truly feel what they're talking about than just reading it from a museum. So that was definitely one. And again, it was in Kentucky. Who would have thought, right? 

There I am going, oh, Muhammad Ali. And, you know, and suddenly this happens. And I go back to my hotel thinking, God. And I guess more recently was, in Seattle, where we were speaking to a direct descendant of the chief of Seattle. And he said how much you have to fight for recognition. And we were talking about how laws are made in the country. He said, how you perceive a law is very different to how we, as tribes, perceive a law. You may see things as just black and white, but for us, our ancestors lived through our truth. So modern laws don't really work with us, but we are trying to work together. And that got me thinking on how travelers should start seeing places they go to. If you're not sure of terminology, look it up. We have so many tools at our disposal now. We've got so many places that will teach you the right terminology. If you don't know how to address somebody who's from an indigenous tribe, ask them. They're actually very willing to talk to you and help you about that. We look up what vaccinations we need before going to a country. 

Why can't we look up what terminology is needed? It's equally important. 

Kav Dadfar [17:37]: Very well said. I couldn't agree more. Ben, any standout experiences, any standout moments that shaped your sort of perceptions of how you tell stories? 

Ben Pechey [17:47]: Oh, I've not traveled as much. I feel like a fraud; I've not been to America. 

Kav Dadfar [17:50]: But you were saying you've been to Middlesbrough last week. 

Ben Pechey [17:52]: No, I was in Middlesbrough last week. So, you know, highs and lows. I have not traveled as much because I've not felt that that's open to me. I've not felt that that's something that's accessible to me. I think you have to think about the stresses in your life and how much you're willing to put onto yourself. And so I guess my storytelling is something of knowing what it feels like to be limited. You know, we all have different things that stop us doing things. What does that feel like? If you can't connect to someone understanding why they might be reserved to go and do, you're never going to get them to go and do that. And it's understanding, I can't understand everyone else's marginalization, but on the same, you'll probably never understand mine. You'll never understand the difficulties; Gerda and I, we were talking about, "it's good enough." There's a lot of things I have to let slide. Just getting on a train, going to a hotel, the way people speak to me, the way people perceive me. You're probably not thinking about it, but I am. And it's thinking about those chains, it's a weight that I carry. 

And so that's, in terms of how I tell stories, is from that perspective of the most limited access. Because once you consider the most problems, the biggest parameters, the most difficult in terms of access, you meet the needs of everyone. You know, I spend a lot of my time defending the rights of trans people. And my simple answer is, yeah, but if we get it right for my small 1% of the population community, your life's going to be enriched, too. The more accessible travel is, the better time you're gonna have, too. So actually, we're not asking you just to help a small amount of people; we're asking you to make everyone's lives a little bit better. And so go home and not feel too bad about that, because you can be a little bit selfish of, like, if I do this, it will make this better for more people. It's only a good thing. 

Kav Dadfar [19:45]: Absolutely. And so just following on from that, you mentioned that in previous years, you've been hesitant to travel to the U.S. What's been the sort of biggest challenge, and how do you think that the U.S. can actually be more welcoming to the trans community? 

Ben Pechey [19:59]: There's lots of different things. I've only had a passport for 18 months, because legal documentation doesn't always align to how you identify or how you represent yourself. To have a physical document that doesn't match who you are, yeah, that's a big deal. But I also realize I get to win if it's on my terms. So I do have a physical document that I don't think represents who I am, and it makes travel interesting. If you ever go through security, I've never gone through security and not been stopped. You always get pulled aside. It's always the conversation, you see the security people, they're trying to work out which one of them should come and frisk you, which one of them, and it's like, do you know what? I'll help you out. I don't mind who, but can we just roll it forwards? It's all the things that you have to help people. Because, it's funny, I'm the most uncomfortable, but I spend most of my time making other people comfortable. And if you just had a little bit more consideration outside your own experience, you know, like, when you get on a train or a plane and they say, "Welcome, ladies and gentlemen." 

You're not talking to me. I don't feel represented. And I know that's a thing that's ingrained in all of us, but why not say, "Welcome, everyone?" You know, you could just, in a small, simple change, I feel represented. I feel included. You know, like, it's how you do things if they're not quite right, you know, like, I was, like I said I was in Middlesbrough last week, and obviously, always in my contracts, I have stipulations about facilities. Like, I want genderless toilets. And if you don't have them, make it so that it feels like it's not difficult for me to get it. Or we walk past here and you've got toilets in this building that say girls and boys. And I'm like, well, where am I supposed to go? And it's little things like that, before I've even tackled the anxiety of the day - have I taken my medication? Am I wearing the right shoes? Like, it's so base level. And if you start to have conversations of, how do we make everyone feel included, what can we do to mitigate? You know, it's really interesting, you said London's the only place where they sort of talk to you at the start of your stay in a hotel. 

Do that for everyone. Ask everyone what their access needs are, and suddenly you're not singled out, and suddenly I don't feel uncomfortable to advocate for myself. And it makes a huge difference. And what did that cost you? Three minutes? It's nothing. It's nothing. 

Kav Dadfar [22:21]: Absolutely. I think that actually, conversation is probably the first point, isn't it, to actually starting that process? Is just asking questions and actually just engaging with people. 

Ben Pechey [22:31]: And I'm far less likely to be hostile if you start with that intention. You know, we spoke about it yesterday, I was like, are pronouns going to be mentioned? Because I don't want to do it first. I don't want to leverage that risk. But if someone does it before me, I feel comfortable. If you are speaking to me an hour into the line, and I've already been misgendered and I already want to go home, you're not going to get the best version of me. But if you approach me at the start and we have a conversation, oh, it's better for everyone. 

Kav Dadfar [22:58]: Rashmi, so you work with a lot of editors, across different platforms as well. Are you seeing a shift in sort of the last few years in the type of travel stories that are being told? And also, how are editors sort of working to ensure that destinations or experiences are being showcased from different perspectives? 

Rashmi Narayan [23:15]: There definitely is a shift. A very small one, but there is one. Because for most of it, people do want to see what new hotels are opening up and all of that. But in terms of diverse voices, there is a sliver on, I think the newer publications, the new magazines, the independent ones who want to do a deep dive - JRNY, Adventure.com - quite a few of them are very much people focused. They're like, yes, I'm glad that there's the destination, but the people make it, so let's give them a voice. And we want you to tell it, because then it bridges a gap that we wouldn't have thought of. There is conversation being had, there are stories being written, but if I had to put numbers on it, I'd say we're only about 20%. We have a long way to go. As you were saying, it's a good trajectory to be on, but they've started thinking about these things. And a big part of that, I owe that initiative to a lot of the tourism boards that we have here, where even they are looking at that. I asked one or two of them, what's your goal for 2025? 

They're like, we want to start looking into, yes, we show you this amusement park or this new food tour, but we also want to tell you who's giving you that food tour. We want to start bringing in people from our state that represent our state, not just one person. And that will open up your idea, so I think it's a beautiful give and take between the tourism boards, and, once they bring in those ideas, we as writers and editors can start thinking, ah, we never of that angle. It's there, it's slow, but I think within another five years it's definitely going to get better. So, yeah, very hopeful. 

Kav Dadfar [24:44]: So do you have any specific examples of maybe things you've worked on or things that you've read about, good examples of that? 

Rashmi Narayan [24:51]: Oh, absolutely. It's amazing to see a lot of U.S. states sort of waking up to that thing saying, hey, New Zealand, Canada, they're all doing a lot more for their indigenous population, and we need to start waking up and doing a lot more. So even if collectively the U.S. isn't raising that flag, I've seen individual states sort of making that progress, bringing them into leadership roles. That's the other thing. Not just, oh, we're going to throw them in, give you a quote, and that's it, you've got your story; no, we'll sit them down at, like, a decision-making panel on what the goals are, so that they have their say on, okay, what is the homelessness level? Why is it all the indigenous population? So example-wise, very recently, I read a beautiful story on how there were black cowboys. Never thought of that, right?

 We're all obsessed with cowboy culture, who isn't? But suddenly you're like, oh, hang on, there's a West African streak there, because this whole idea of working with horses came from the black community. And then there was a Mexican angle to it, which I learned in San Antonio, where it's like, oh, the vaqueros that came in. So many beautiful things that you would never expect. So I wrote about the Mexican side of a rodeo, which you wouldn't expect. And I read a beautiful piece on black cowboys. As you can tell, there are these little snippets of it that you wouldn't imagine, but it's bringing in diversity within U.S. storytelling, beyond New York and, you know, Times Square. 

Kav Dadfar [26:17]: Great, and it was a great story for the San Antonio rodeo, so well done. Gerda, I'm going to come to you. Just kind of switching it the other way. What has been the biggest challenge for accessible travelers, and how do you sort of work with destinations to make sure that sort of changes happen and improvements happen? 

Gerda van't Land [26:34]: I think that the travel, transport, is the most difficult part. And for most of the people, they make the decision from there if they dare want to travel. It's a bit the same as what you just said then. I just was reading yesterday an article in science about that 43% of the people with a disability don't dare to travel. That's a lot. I thought it was actually that more people there, because I see the difference with my agency in the last 20 years, we could see that more and more people dare to travel, and we see the communities. And that's the part what you just said: we don't see ourselves back in the regular media, but there are now, on social media, a lot of, like, the Real World guys from San Francisco that you may know, they do a lot in this awareness story. So I think the travel is the most hard point. I think I only had a flight yesterday from Amsterdam to London City Airport. And if I tell you, like, just was on my back with a small video camera to see what's then happening, you have to be, like, relaxed and say, okay, finally we will be there. 

But also a lot of wheelchairs are broken when they come on the airport of destination. And I think maybe a few of you had the opportunity to listen to Sophie Morgan; she has a bit of the same story, of course. And we will not fight with yelling or screaming, but fight with, like being a part of you. I don't feel different than all of you and all of you, because of we're all human beings, and we want to go on a holiday or on a big trip or whatever. But then if I make that translation to the U.S., what I found is, in the hotels, for example, and I think we called it a few years ago, "shower shaming." Because like in the hotel rooms, the beds are all very high. Most of the hotels have very high beds, carpet on the floor, very heavy doors. And if you are in the bathroom, they have low toilets and very high grab bars. And if you sit on the seat in the bathroom, then you cannot reach the handle for the shower. So there are a couple of things. In the beginning, when I joined the IPW, people told me, "We are good, accessible. 

So no, no, you don't have to ask us that." But I cannot see it. It's not shown on a website, it's not shown on a lot of websites. But if you ask then for that sort of awareness, it's the knowledge, it's the dare, it's, maybe you don't want it, you don't want to show it. But now after I think I joined seven or eight times, but now I can see the difference, because when I join, people are prepared, and they show me, "Okay, we did the mapping," for example, San Diego; or I was invited in the state of Utah to do a tour, and they wanted to listen to me what was good, accessible, yes or no. And I tried to look as wide as possible, because I know that I look from my own perspective. And that's not, of course, everything. We always say, if people travel to the U.S., know how it's about the flight and then if you're there, the transportation on the side, and then the hotels. If you say yes to all of these, we really want to book you. 

Kav Dadfar [29:38]: Fantastic. And then obviously, from what you just said, it sounds like U.S. destinations, hotels, are more receptive to your suggestions and changes. 

Gerda van't Land [29:48]: Yeah, that's a compliment that I'd like to give, because I see a really big change coming up, and we still can push on some places. And then again also in the regular media. And I hope that also one day - and I call it regular, because I don't see the difference. But it's needed still to be a specialist, I think, in this event - but if other tour operators are able to show that they have also a program for, and now I talk about the disabilities, but like have a wider program and only think of, okay, we are able to go from A to B ,and for that market, we are there. 

Kav Dadfar [30:22]: Just sort of briefly, what is the sort of one single piece of advice that you can give the audience on how we can all collectively encourage diverse storytelling and more sort of inclusion? 

Ben Pechey [30:34]: Show me it's safe, or that you're at least working on safety. You know, I'm more likely to listen to someone from my own experience and background when they tell me that they've been somewhere and that it was safe and they felt that they were able to walk down the street holding their partner's hand, that they didn't arrive to the hotel with their partner and get given twin beds when you want just one bed. I'm more likely, if you have those diverse stories, I'm more likely to sign on and say, "Hey, I want to do that." So you need to start working with people that can speak to my kind of community. I've never been to the U.S. I'm free. Maybe you could send me. I'm only likely to listen to someone like myself, and so my community would as well. It's having those people so that we will listen, because otherwise, I'm just not going to trust you. 

Kav Dadfar [31:23]: Rashmi, what's the sort of advice you would give everyone? 

Rashmi Narayan [31:26]: I think understand what makes the U.S. You know, it's beyond the film, it's beyond just what you see in magazines and everything, and understand that all the communities that it brings forward with indigenous, enslaved, and the new wave of immigrant communities as well. Take pride in that and understand that it's a melting pot of different cultures. There is diversity there. There's a Portuguese population in Massachusetts. Who knew? I didn't. And I'm like, why can't we celebrate the Basque community in Nevada? Start seeking those stories and understanding how diverse the U.S. is. Instead of going, "I want barbecue and ribs." Yeah, have that, please. But go on beyond that and seek communities, and then you start supporting them as well, because God knows they need that more than we do. So start understanding what makes the U.S. and look at it from a people's perspective. 

Kav Dadfar [32:11]: Absolutely. And nothing wrong with barbecue and ribs, by the way. Just putting that out there. 

Gerda van't Land [32:17]: That's good. Because if we think in diversity, don't think in inclusion or exclusion. I hate actually these words, because - we had this conversation earlier, if you think of inclusion, then it's like, "Okay, actually, you were outside of a community, and now, okay, we spoke about it, and now, okay, come on, you can go." I know that we need the word to ask for the awareness. That's, I think, the most important thing. And use also this, even it's a small percentage, we never travel alone. We travel with friends. And what you just said, Ben, like, if you make it easier for only 1%, you will have much more. A lot of what I saw in America or in the U.S. touched me by the people, and I think that's the most important thing. 

Kav Dadfar [33:04]: Fantastic. I want to thank the fantastic panel that we had today, and thank you for joining us. Thank you. 

Mark Lapidus [33:11]: By embracing diverse narratives, we're not just changing who gets to share their story, but who gets to feel welcomed and valued in every journey. Let's keep the conversation going and make spaces for voices that often go unheard. And that's it for today for Brand USA Talks Travel. Lots more Travel Week episodes coming. I'm Mark Lapidus, thanks for listening. 

Outro [33:31]: This episode was produced by Asher Meerovich, Nthanze Kariuki, and Casey D'Ambra. Special thanks to Alexis Adelson and Phil Dickerson. Engineering by Brian Watkins. If you enjoyed this Live From Travel Week U.K. and Europe episode, please share it with your friends in the travel industry. Safe travels!

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