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36 min

Live From Travel Week: Growing the Experience Economy with Access to Off-the-Beaten-Path Product

Our final panel from Travel Week dives deep into growing demand for hidden gems, illustrating how destinations can connect with travelers seeking unique, authentic travel along with more traditional landmarks and luxuries. You’ll also hear how Tourism Exchange USA and receptive tour operators can help. 

Moderator: April Hutchinson, Editor of TTG Luxury. Panelists: Liz Bittner, CEO of Travel South USA; Nate Huff, President of Tourism Exchange USA; and Lena Ross, Director of Product Development at America 4 You.

"We're here to talk about greater access to off-the-beaten-path product and the growing demand for these kinds of experiences. Plus, we'll look at how the travel trade can respond to meet this growing demand."

Intro: Giving you exclusive access to the minds of industry leaders in this special edition of Brand USA Talks Travel, recorded live in London. Brand USA Travel Week, hosted in U.K. and Europe, brings together key players in the U.S., U.K., and European travel industry to discuss trends, challenges, innovations, and the opportunity to drive future visitation to the United States. Here's your host, Mark Lapidus. 

Mark Lapidus [0:27]: In this episode, we hear unique ways the industry is helping travelers discover hidden gems in the United States, from moonshine distilleries to places where you can make your own custom jeans to music spots that capture local culture. Now, here's panel moderator April Hutchinson. 

April Hutchinson [0:42]: We're here to talk about greater access to off-the-beaten-path product and the growing demand for these kinds of experiences. My name is April Hutchinson, I'm the editor of TTG Luxury Magazine. It's a pleasure to be here. In the session we are going to look at how travelers are increasingly seeking these kind of experiences which allow them to get under the skin of a destination, and explore how destinations can spotlight the diversity of the experiences that are on offer. Plus, we'll look at how the travel trade can respond to meet this growing demand. Additionally, panelists will showcase the available tools that will allow destinations and the trade to promote the variety of experiences that are available. So to join me in this discussion, I'm thrilled to have Liz Bittner, who I'm sure many of you know is President and CEO of Travel South USA, a 12-State Regional Marketing Alliance owned by the Tourism Offices of Alabama. You know them. "Shout out some more," yeah. Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, and West Virginia. How do you even sleep, Liz? I don't know how you look after all those. 

She has successfully built a program of work that's been acknowledged as outstanding by the Board of Directors and industry alike. Her background also includes serving as Executive VP of Group Leaders of America and Cendant Corporation, now Wyndham Worldwide, the world's largest franchisor of lodging brands, rental car companies, and transaction processing services. She's a member of the U.S. Travel Industry Board of Directors and Beautiful Places of South Carolina, and also acts as Business Manager for the U.S. Civil Rights Trail Marketing Alliance. Welcome Liz. And we also have with us Nate Huff again, who many of you know is President of Tourism Exchange USA, a Miles Partnership Company. He has spent the last 15 years working with destinations and travel partners to craft brands and develop digital content and media strategies that generate measurable results. He has extensive experience working with clients such as Brand USA, San Francisco Travel, Discover Puerto Rico, and Travel South. Currently heads up Tourism Exchange USA, global product development and distribution platform for DMOs and travel businesses that's being launched nationwide in collaboration with Brand USA. So welcome Nate. Over here on my left is Lena Ross. She is Chief Operating Officer and Director of Product Development for America 4 You, again, which many of you know is a receptive tour operator where she's worked since 2006. 

Prior to this, she held roles in the San Diego CVB and the Anaheim Orange County CVB, and at the Handlery Hotel San Diego. She has a Master's in Destination Management from George Washington University and a Tour Directing Certificate from ITMI. In addition, she was the President of the Grant Circle Organization for two years, and currently serves as the Chairperson on the Board for International Inbound Travel Association. So welcome Lena. Now I think it's first good to set up the session, really, by talking about what's become known as the experience economy, and why it's so important. The experience economy is a concept that's been gaining more attention in recent years, and is expected to be worth $12 trillion by 2028, up by 5.2 trillion in 2019. So quite a huge growth going on there. But when we talk about experience economy, what are we talking about? There is a chap called James Wallman, who is the CEO of the World Experience Organization, who has led a lot of this thinking. And it's built on the idea that people are now valuing experiences more than material possessions. And this shift in consumer behavior has created this whole new economy around providing unique, memorable experiences. 

This experience sector is ripe with entrepreneurship, with 60% of those running these kind of local tours and 40% of activity businesses founded in the last decade alone, according to the recent Global Operator Landscape State of Experiences Report by Arival. And the number of startups has only picked up as the pandemic has receded. Clearly this has become both a valuable and enriching area of tourism, so how can both the trade and destinations ensure they are a key part of this dynamic sector? Personalization is obviously key - tapping into people's passion points and tailoring things to exactly what they're looking for. Technology has played a huge part in elevating the awareness of these kind of experiences, and also allowing people to share those experiences with more and more people. The experience economy is also driven by a desire for authenticity. People can see through if it's not something which has that authenticity at its heart; they're all craving genuine, unique experiences rooted in local culture. So this has led to this rise in experiential travel, and now, maintaining the authenticity is key. Quality control is also vital, obviously, to maintain integrity - those referrals and repeats. Crucial here is the significant role played by small businesses. 

How can they elevate themselves, get themselves on platform so that people know they're there and can book these kind of experiences, which hopefully the trade can help them to do? That same report I mentioned says that nearly 80% of people running the tours fall into the small or medium-sized category, and they're serving probably around 10,000 guests annually when they're doing these tours. So it's a highly fragmented kind of landscape that we're looking at, but one that's really just going to continue to grow and grow, and the more we can help them to come to the fore, I think it's going to be really, really useful for all tourism kind of stakeholders. So having set that landscape, I'm going to start with you, Liz. Elevating small or specialist experiences in perhaps non-primary locations speaks to Brand USA's key goals: firstly, encourage travelers to go through and beyond the gateways, and secondly, to encourage a diverse range of experiences that highlight these underrepresented, sometimes grassroots travel options. So how does this whole philosophy align with the offer that your states have? And do you recognize this experience economy, say, in the last decade, and how it's been growing? 

Liz Bittner [06:55]: Well, thanks, April. So when you sent me the list of questions and it said "non-primary," I was like, I like, laughed out loud. Because what I remembered was, it wasn't so long ago that our group would come to World Travel Market, for example, and we would be in the very back corner next to Uzbekistan, and we would be really hustling to get meetings. And I like to call ourselves a 10 year overnight success, because we don't have that problem anymore. We consider ourselves a primary destination, and we have these great assets of food and music and culture and just that whole road trip experience that repeat travelers to the United States crave. But the challenge is, and what we're really here to talk about is, all of that authentic experience is less about what the building looks like; it's more about what the docent is explaining to you in the building, or it's the background of the history of why this place is important, or how this musician - you know, one of my favorite places, like, is Bluebird Cafe in Nashville, because they talk about how the songwriting came about and the inspiration and who else they write songs for. 

And so it's all this storytelling that's very local, that's very personalized, that's very entrepreneurial, as you said. And so the challenge is, how do you connect those really great businesses to something that allows them to be sold? The communication is the first point, and then the second part is it has to be sold. And so I would say that that's why we're here for this conversation. That's why the Travel South group has taken the lead in being a guinea pig, as I like to call ourselves, on the Tourism Exchange. But we really feel very passionately about - for international travelers to come to the United States, that's a big ask, right? You know, it's a big purchase, it's an expensive purchase these days, and legitimately, they want all of that local feel, and we want to be able to bring all that local feel to the marketplace. So thanks for asking, but we're not non-primary anymore. 

April Hutchinson [09:04]: Apologies. So would you say you've definitely noticed from what consumers are looking for, what travelers are looking for, and the market's kind of reacting to that, that you've seen the growth in people operating or running these amazing small...? 

Liz Bittner [09:18]: Absolutely, absolutely. I think that, you know, every tour operator in the room, you know, their business model is also to keep their customers as repeat customers, right? So it's 10 times, 15 times harder to find a new customer than it is to continually sell something new, a new product, to the same consumer. They come to us asking, "Well, tell us what's new." What can differentiate my product or my service to my customer that is in your destination? How can I show some unique sort of aspect of the South that isn't in everybody else's program, and how can I package that in so an FIT or a group, that it's unique? Otherwise we're just all, you know, on a race to the bottom, cause then we just become a commodity. 

April Hutchinson [10:02]: Yeah, it's a great comment. And Lena, you're coming at it from that tour operator perspective. So same question to you, as a receptive: how is America 4 You focused on beyond the gateway, immersive travel, high level of personalized experiences? And do you also sense the change of, you know, these kind of guys and people coming to you saying, "We need different stuff?" 

Lena Ross [10:23]: Yeah, 100%. Of course. Everybody's looking for that new and unique. And I think that while Covid - the bad word that we don't like to talk about - changed a lot of things in not the best way, I think one of the things, especially with experiences that we noticed that has pushed things a little further along, is that a lot of the operators that we worked with and the smaller tour experiences that we worked with pre-Covid took the time to create private tour experiences during Covid, because that was all they were allowed to offer. And those have now continued on, and are typically more requested than their traditional guided, because I think people have looked at, now, "Well, if I spend just a little bit more, I'm getting my own experience where the guide is just talking to me, and can be a little more hands on," and that kind of stuff. And as a company ourselves, that is what we look for, is beyond the gateways; we're looking for those second-, third-tier destinations that maybe aren't as well known, or it is harder to work with the product there, because they don't know how to reach the consumer here in Europe. 

And they're looking to work with people to make that happen, and the operators are looking to add those experiences in. And I think, also, in today's world of TikTok and Instagram and YouTube, we're also seeing that there's a lot more information about what is authentic versus what isn't authentic. And I think a lot of times what people thought of America came a lot from movies and TV shows that was highly curated by somebody who decided, "This is what Orange County looked like," if you watch The OC, which was not filmed in Orange County at all. But now they're looking at YouTube; I watched two British guys that go around the South, where they've been, and taste food. And they eat food, it's called Two British Guys Who Eat Food or something like that. 

April Hutchinson [12:19]: That is very... 

Lena Ross [12:20]: Original name. But they're going into the small Mom and Pop, the original Nashville Hot Chicken, and explaining what it is. And so you can't just walk into... They also went to Nando's here and took their hot chicken and was like, "This isn't hot." I don't know what's going on. Maybe hot for a British person, but those kind of things are what make people now realize that they need to go to the South to experience that food. 

Lena Ross [12:45]: While you might find something here that is trying to be like that, you're not going to get the same experience unless you're actually there, tasting that original chicken recipe. 

Liz Bittner [12:54]: You're hired. 

Lena Ross [12:55]: See, there you go. 

April Hutchinson [12:57]: Nate, let's move on to you and dive into this area of technology and connectivity as it relates to what we all understand is a growing demand for experiences. Where does Tourism Exchange fit into this landscape? And give us a bit of context around... 

Nate Huff [13:12]: Yeah, I couldn't agree more with the previous comments, too. And I think there's two types of new experiences: there's new experiences with existing product, you know, and a lot of that did come out of Covid, and that's a really important aspect, and then there's sort of like net new experiences that don't exist, aren't bookable, at least through travel trade currently, and so forth. And that was really kind of the gap that Tourism Exchange is looking to lean into, is what is out there that fits into this consumer need, desire for authenticity, off the beaten path, that's just not bookable? And the challenge that you alluded to there is, depending on who you ask, 40, 50% of experiences don't have a way to book online at all. So if they're not connected online at all, the chances that they're in the booking systems that can be used by travel trade or OTAs or anywhere else, it's pretty low. And then you look at that across the entirety of the U.S., and you look at the scale that that creates, and these are small businesses. They're mom and pops. They've got folks who are doing operations and marketing and service and all those different things. 

And so the ability to give businesses a way to get into the international market and be able to manage that availability in a simple, I like to say, like a Fisher-Price, My First Booking System sort of way, that is really where Tourism Exchange is meant to sit in the ecosystem. To try, whether it's an operator, whether it's a receptive, whether it's an OTA, to give the business a chance to open up new audiences that they just don't have the bandwidth to access and that can't necessarily scale, always, the traditional way we've done product development. 

April Hutchinson [15:00]: Okay, so it's bridging the digital divide so that people can access great Americana experiences. I know you have around 40,000 businesses on the platform, is that right? 

Nate Huff [15:12]: 40,000 businesses. But the unique businesses is really where we're focused, the net new product, and that is very much at its infancy. But we've been talking to operators this week about what those businesses look like, and where we're seeing growth in those areas. April Hutchinson [15:27]: Okay. So maybe could you give us a couple of success stories of these kind of small local businesses which you've connected? 

Nate Huff [15:35]: Absolutely. And of course, I wrote some of those down, because I would not remember them off the top of my head. So when we talked about, what is that authentic experience that people are looking for? You know, it is things like L.L. Forge Blacksmith Experience in Michigan. You know, it's in a relatively small town in Michigan, but on a popular driving route. And you go and make a sword, or a knife, or an iron rose, and you learn, like, traditional blacksmithing, you know, that's the sort of experience. Or Hambly Lavender Farm in Paso Robles in California, where you're going for this you-pick lavender experience, and wine tasting local wines, you know; or moonshine distilleries in Ocala, Florida, where you're getting American moonshine. Do not recommend overdoing that. You know, Louisville hot food tours. May Museum in Colorado Springs is entomology, it's like, one of the preeminent bug museums in the Western U.S. Not my thing, but a lot of people are really into that. 

April Hutchinson [16:38]: Remember that personalization, yes. Nate Huff [16:39]: You know, those are those things that just, they don't have the volume, necessarily, to be on the radar, but if they can be easily accessible, and they can be transactable, the commerce can work for everyone, that's what we're hoping to achieve as an additive solution. 

April Hutchinson [16:54]: Brilliant, thank you. Liz, from your side, when we talk about product and experience, how as a tourism organization - and perhaps for others in the room maybe to pick up and learn from that - how do you encourage and nurture these experiences to come to the fore, and connect them into the sales funnel? And obviously, as you mentioned, you have now started working with Nate, so maybe just connect those two. 

Liz Bittner [17:15]: I was going to say, you know, to sort of add on to him. He particularly didn't mention any of the Southern stuff so that I could. You know, I think that there's like three elements of this, as three examples. So, Dexter Avenue Baptist Church, which is the only church that Martin Luther King Jr. actually pastored in, that's in Montgomery, Alabama, that we are working as a group to elevate some of the sites on the U.S. Civil Rights Trail to be World Heritage Sites. They currently don't have a Stripe account. So what all the people do, and I literally was there a couple of weeks ago, they drop them off in front of the Montgomery Capitol, and they stand in front of the Dexter Avenue Church and they take a picture, and then they get back on the bus and they leave. Well, that doesn't help the church, right? And that doesn't tell the story of why that church is so important, and the whole understanding of the Montgomery boycott and that being the cradle of the Civil Rights movement. They currently don't do anything. They do have a small group that, if you email them, they will let you in and do a tour, and it's $10. 

And so our role is to help them figure out how to make that viable, commercial, and authentic, without hurting the authenticity of the place. The next level is also an Alabama place, interestingly: Muscle Shoals, Alabama. So if you're a music aficionado, you know that, you know, the Swampers are from Muscle Shoals. You know the song, "Sweet Home Alabama, where the skies are so blue." Rolling Stones, Aretha Franklin, Bob Dylan, etc. So that ticket is $17. The reality is that there's not enough margin in a $17 rate - not only margin, but also volume - for an operator to individually contract that. So if we roll it into an all-in-one pass in the Muscle Shoals, Florence, and the Northern Alabama area, that then gives the operator an ability for you to sell a $35 pass that's going to not only help all those individual businesses, but, more importantly, or as importantly, for us, it is also the reason that you're going to stay one or two nights in that area. And our goal in life is to get you to slow down, to stay longer, and to spend more money, right? That makes the operator more money. 

That makes us more money. And then the last but not least, this is not all low end-hanging fruit. There's a great place in Tupelo, Mississippi where you can have your own custom jeans made. I warn you, they start at $450, but they have, as part of the experience, you get to pick out your own denim, you get to pick out your own stitching. Apparently you are never supposed to wash jeans; I think that's personally gross, but nonetheless, you're supposed to put them in the freezer, that kills all the bacteria. Yuck. And they have a partnership, so you go to Tupelo, not only just to see the birthplace of Elvis Presley, you stay in a really nice hotel, and you get this custom jeans that you're going to wear forever. And by the way, while they're taking the 14 measurements, you drink some Kentucky bourbon, so it's all Southern. And then you maybe buy two pair, because you're a little on the tipsy side, which is even better. And it's all about money. So I think that there's this whole range of opportunity, and that's the answer for every operator in the room, receptive operator and international operator that we talk to that, you know, when they ask, "What's new?" 

Well, so much is new. And now we finally have an answer to say - and it's bookable, and it's commissionable, and it's for the trade. This is not a consumer-facing. This is really for the trade. 

April Hutchinson [20:42]: Lena, a similar question to you, really. I mean, we talked there about those benefits going to, obviously the local people running the businesses, to you guys as tour operators, and obviously the guest is having a great time. What do you see as the benefits of a focus on deeper experiences within this whole tourism model? 

Lena Ross [21:00]: Yeah, I think similar to what Liz was saying, a lot of clients now are looking to slow down, to have tours with multiple nights in different destinations rather than that traditional one night, one night, one night, "Oh, I'm in LA, so now I'm doing two nights," but then moving along. But the big thing with that is they also want to know what they're going to do there for a whole day. Right? 

You need to have something to get them to understand why. I always say, the hotel is needed; we can't sell your destination if there's no hotel there. Where are they gonna stay? Right? But in order to keep them there longer, you need to have the things that are going to make them want to be there. I talk a lot about Kanab, Utah. It is not as well-known of a destination in terms of that region, people go to Zion, people go to Page, Bryce. Kanab is a place where you can do some of the day trips from there, or do full day hiking experiences. They have some special things that you can see on Instagram now, like the Wave, and all of those kind of things, that give clients a reason to stay there. And when I look at a destination like that, particularly, they have the restaurants and the hotels to facilitate longer stays as well. They have the more boutique-style hotels, the restaurants that have the level of food that you want. So I feel comfortable recommending it, because my clients are going to enjoy being there for two to three nights. 

And so those are the kind of places that we're looking at. I also talk to a lot of destinations about making sure that you're partnering with other places, whether they're in your own state or outside of your own state. But looking at what a reasonable driving distance is, three to five hours. If you're only an hour apart, it's real difficult to convince clients to stay multiple nights or to make that stop. But if you can partner with places that are three to five hours distance from you, that's what's going to make an itinerary. And then if you have the product, the full day hiking tour, the Baptist church experience, something that is going to make them stay that full day, then you get a two night stay versus a one night stay. 

April Hutchinson [23:09]: Nate, as a sort of helicopter view, really, on this whole sector, how would you kind of encapsulate the changes in this traditional landscape of, say, contracting and trip creation, and do you see traditional players adapting? And how would you say people need to, perhaps, develop a little bit more in this sort of area that will really benefit? 

Nate Huff [23:28]: Well, I mean, obviously, like, we can't stop how consumers evolve; like, consumers are going to buy how they buy. As an industry, we're facing constant change, and, you know, the reality, I heard somebody present earlier this week that, you know, said it's like 80, 90% in France are booking at least some of their travel, if not all of it, on OTAs. So like that's just the reality. We can't fight that. So for our operator segments, regardless of what country it is, to be relevant, we've got to stay in front of the consumer. And so what operators do that no OTA can do, you know, whether it's a receptive operator or whether it's an in-country operator is, they provide expertise. Like, they know their clients, they provide assurances, and that is what makes them different. But if we're not also offering the exact types of products that they can find elsewhere, then we're still gonna lose market share. Like 80 or 90% of Gen Z millennials, they say, and Lena was talking about what came out of Covid, and, like, certain trends stayed and certain trends went away. Some were transitory, caused by Covid, some were transformative, caused by Covid. 

And that desire that the stat, I think it's an Amex travel study, but it said 80% of Gen Z and millennials want to travel someplace their friends and family haven't traveled. It used to be, "I want the thing that everyone else has done," like I want the photo in front of the Bellagio fountains, you know. And now it's, "I want to do something that no one else has done." Well, that means it's product that may not be available. And so I see Tourism Exchange and travel trade as a marriage that works to satisfy that demand. It doesn't step into the realm of caretaking, it doesn't step into the realm of handholding, and those sort of things. 

April Hutchinson [25:15]: Or packaging. 

Nate Huff [25:16]: Or packaging, or that. But hopefully it creates access and scalable, profitable access, that also works for the local communities, works for those goals of the destination around dispersal and off season. Like Liz was saying, like, some of these experiences are booked every weekend, you know, because they're popular, they're what people want. But internationals don't travel just on weekends. So like, if we can make this available, and we can educate the businesses about the value of international and midweek and off season and shoulder season, then we can help deliver the product while travel trade delivers that relationship, that service, that expertise. 

April Hutchinson [25:56]: You mentioned a few statistics there, I'm going to throw a few of my own in here. Another study by Arival, a company I mentioned earlier, talking about affluent travelers and what they're looking for: a third of bookings, and 46% of total spending on tours and activities, comes from them. So they really are a very significant part of the marketplace. And young, affluent travelers aged 18 to 14 spend 50% more on activities than other travelers, because they are this very visible generation, from TikTok- 

Nate Huff [26:26]: Apparently they want $450 jeans. 

April Hutchinson [26:28]: They wear $450 jeans, yeah, exactly. So I'm sure that all the tourism product you have available, we'd love to be accessible to any visitor coming, whether they've got a couple of dollars or $2,000. But do you focus any more on affluent travelers and trying to elevate to the luxury market, or? 

Liz Bittner [26:45]: Absolutely. So, again, I feel like I have one of the best jobs on the planet, because I have this great, rich, diverse destination that is geographically the same size as Europe. What that means is that there is a wide swath of businesses available. So we have everything from the Greenbrier, which was the original resort in America - literally George Washington's bathtub is just outside the Greenbrier - to these amazing resorts, one called Blackberry Farm that's just outside of Nashville. It's 1,000 bucks a night. But it's worth it. I haven't actually stayed there, but I think it's worth it. That being said, that same person is also going to want to go to the Bluebird Cafe. It only has 45 seats. Everybody pays the same amount, or 60 seats, something like that. It's not a luxury experience. It's a authentic, unique experience that's very bespoke. And you can't just like roll into Nashville and get a seat, like, you have to book that in advance. Not every luxury is the Four Seasons. We have that. We have that in New Orleans. We have that in Atlanta; in a couple weeks, shameless plug, we're doing a show called Travel South International. 

And we're at a brand new Signia property, that is the new Hilton brand that goes up against the Marriott Marquis. It's 976 rooms. It's spectacularly beautiful. It's right next to the new Mercedes Benz Dome. We have that. And then I also have, again, to Lena's point, you know, like, you want to sit on the picnic bench and eat Hattie B's hot chicken. Like that's how you eat it. Or do the barbecue trail and you know, go to Tuscaloosa and do Rendezvous or do Dreamland. It's on picnic benches, and they only serve four things. They serve white bread, sweet tea. You can also get Coke, that's a new addition. And that's a luxury experience too, just not luxury how you think about it. 

April Hutchinson [28:31]: Yeah. Not shiny, but experimental. Yeah. And Lena, would you say that you're focused on luxury travelers, and have you seen average spend and duration going up? 

Lena Ross [28:40]: Average spend has definitely gone up, because America's spend, or America's price, has gone up, so that's definitely one of the things. But I was going to say, in terms of kind of what Nate was talking about, I agree that travelers are now looking for the new and different. And I think that is one of the greatest assets we as America have, is that there is still so much of it, even with current available products, that has not reached the end consumer yet in that way. Or that they've all seen Antelope slot canyon, but they realize there are other slot canyons that you can go visit and get a similar experience, or even a better experience, potentially. But in terms of luxury travel, I think to Liz's point, it doesn't necessarily mean in everywhere in the U.S. what it means if you're in L.A. staying in luxury properties, right? And so I think that's part of our job, as a receptive tour operator, is to manage those expectations, but also to explain how things work in the U.S. and why you're not staying at a five-star resort in Montana or Wyoming. But that's not because they don't have luxury high level stuff. 

A lot of times what that system of ranking is based on is an old, outdated system of, "Do they have hangers that you can remove?" and "Do they have valet parking?" And I'm like, I don't think you need valet parking in Montana. Anywhere that you're going, you'll be fine, you'll find a parking spot. So again, it's understanding that you can stay in a small boutique hotel along the route that you want to take, and it may only be rated three-star, but the experience that you're getting is going to be the level of luxury that you would like, or that authentic original experience. And you're going to get the Marriott dream bed, and all of those things that you're expecting, but it's not quite rated that because that's not how those smaller destinations are really looking at their product. 

Nate Huff [30:45]: I think phone in the bathroom is another great idea. 

Lena Ross [30:47]: Yeah, there's so many silly things that I'm like, that's just not... No. 

April Hutchinson [30:51]: I will just throw in here that we were in New York once, and I went off to do the show around with the general manager, and I was staying with my sister, and she locked herself in the toilet, and used the phone to call down to reception to say she was stuck in the toilet. I came back and there was all sorts of people outside the door trying to get her out. Anyway, so sometimes there's a reason there's a toilet... But yeah, it shouldn't be the reason why you pick an experience. You know, we hear so much about overtourism these days; I've seen it in myself, you know, in the U.K., queues of people standing outside red phone boxes to have a picture taken. It's nowhere near what we've seen in Spain, with protests and things, as we were talking about earlier, but this whole thing is about dispersal, isn't it? Giving those small businesses, communities, the chance to be a part of the wider tourism ecosystem. So would you kind of subscribe to that view that this can help, you know, alleviate? You're still going to want to see some of those classic icons, of course. 

What's your view on that list? 

Liz Bittner [31:49]: So, perfect example would be Louisiana and Mardi Gras, right? Everyone aspires to be in New Orleans during Mardi Gras. But there are Mardi Gras parades and festivals across Louisiana. You know, Mardi Gras is a celebration, so the celebrations are very different and very authentic. So not everybody needs to be in one place. On the flip side, I will say in North Carolina, beautiful outdoor activities, right? You know, home to the national park, that most-visited national park in the National Park System, the Great Smoky Mountains. But we don't need any more people on Fourth of July weekend. We have plenty of domestic people. We don't need any international people. If you happen to be in that area, helping to communicate - and we use travel trade for that, we use, there are some apps that we're, like, developing ,and some of them will have a commercial aspect on the Tourism Exchange, and then using our journalist and the editorial avenue to communicate - there are other rocks you can slide down in North Carolina. Don't everybody go to those same ones. It's too crowded and it's bad for the environment, right? 

Travel South as a region doesn't particularly have a problem with overtourism. I would say what our goal more is, is to make sure that the same amount of people, and maybe a few more, come to our region. We just need you to stay a little longer. If you stayed one more day, that'd be another billion dollars. We'd be happy to take that. But move beyond those city places, and we'll help sell those. You help sell those as tour operators, journalists help tell the stories about those. And then I don't think overterrorism will be as big of a problem, because it really is just about the queues, right? 

April Hutchinson [33:24]: Yeah. 

Lena Ross [33:25]: Yeah. And I was just going to say that's kind of what we also, as a receptive tour operator, are here for, is to help manage those kind of things, and help understanding when our holidays are, when you can travel, help your clients to figure out how to travel responsibly. I know that we as a company are also doing a lot with the Native American Tourism Alliance and helping to make sure that when clients are visiting those areas and trying to do that cultural experience, that they understand that what they need to do as tourists to be respectful and to do all of that, but also what those small destinations need to do to be ready for the international tourists, and to marry that together and to help the education on both sides, so that they aren't feeling like they have to offer something that is not authentic to them because that's what everybody assumes that the experience should be like. They can do what is authentic to their tribe, their destination, and the traveler is well aware of what is expected of them when they're going there. So that it's a good experience for both sides and not just again that, "Oh, I saw this movie, and this is what it's going to be like when I get there." 

No, this is a real true experience of a culture that you're experiencing. 

April Hutchinson [34:47]: I think that's a good point to leave it on. Thank you all for your participation. Thank you for listening and enjoy the rest of the week. 

Mark Lapidus [34:55]: And that concludes Brand USA's Travel Week podcast series. Be sure and check out the many other Travel Week episodes we have in our podcast feed. Regular podcast episodes resume next week. I'm Mark Lapidus, thanks for listening. 

Outro [35:08]: This episode was produced by Asher Meerovich, Nthanze Kariuki, and Casey D'Ambra. Special thanks to Alexis Adelson and Phil Dickerson. Engineering by Brian Watkins. If you enjoyed this Live From Travel Week U.K. and Europe episode, please share it with your friends in the travel industry. Safe travels!

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In this Episode:
April Hutchinson headshot
April Hutchinson
Editor, TTG Luxury

Nate Huff headshot
Nate Huff
President, Tourism Exchange USA

Liz Bittner headshot
Liz Bittner
CEO, Travel South USA

Lena Ross headshot
Lena Ross
Director of Product Development, America 4 You