
From what started as a family passion for David to now being named one of the top five private airlines in the U.S. by Condé Nast Traveler, David Zipkin chats with Mark about his company Tradewind Aviation. You’ll get a glimpse into the exclusive world of luxury private aviation, plus, sustainable practices that are shaping the future of air travel. David Zipkin is the co-founder of Tradewind Aviation.
"Aviation, just like many large industries, is a pretty big emitter of exhaust and has a high carbon footprint. But there are some really interesting things coming down the pipe..."
[00:01.480] - Narrator
This is Brand USA talks travel, elevating the conversation about international travel to the United
States. Here's your host, Mark Lapidus.
[00:09.180] - Mark Lapidus
One of the things I get accused of by my listeners is that I jump all over the place when it comes
to topics and I plead guilty because I feel like that's how normal conversations happen anyway.
Like you don't show up at a bar with a friend and say, here's our agenda, we're going to talk about
these five things. So I really try not to do that when I go off the script, David, understand that it's
for a purpose. And so I'd like to go off the script immediately in this particular podcast because I
read late last night as I was coming back from England that Alaska Airlines merged with Hawaiian
Airlines. What does that mean? I don't even know what it means. So can you give us your
perspective on it?
[00:46.430] - David Zipkin
So consolidation within the traditional airline world is nothing new and not uncommon. Oftentimes
there's scrutiny around it and sometimes it's not allowed to happen. In this case, I'm haven't been
following closely, so I don't know what stage it's at. Maybe it's done, but really it's about being
competitive within whatever market they are in. It used to be in the aviation world, or at least in
the traditional airline world, that we had many, many different competitors, and consolidation
happened over the years. And those who were left behind, to hear them hear it say it, they would
say they had no choice because they have to be at a certain scale or size to compete. And I think
that's generally why and how these things happen. It can be tricky. Of course. These companies
have different cultures, they have different strategies and visions, and hopefully it works out. They
are two well respected companies and I think they're going to do well with it. But it's not without
its challenges.
[01:41.050] - Mark Lapidus
My guest today is David Zipkin, co founder and chief commercial officer at Tradewind Aviation.
David is an instrument rated pilot, and for the past three years, Tradewind has been named in the
top five best airlines in the United States by Conde Nas Traveler. Congratulations on that.
[01:56.370] - David Zipkin
Thank you very much.
[01:57.520] - Mark Lapidus
And welcome to Brand USA Talks Travel. It's great to have you here.
[02:00.750] - David Zipkin
Thank you very much, Mark. It's good to be here.
[02:02.600] - Mark Lapidus
Today we're going to discuss private aviation from a luxury perspective overall. But before we
dive into that, I was, as I always do, kind of searching the Internet for different sightings of David
Zipkin. And one of the things I saw was an interview, David, that you did with medium about
effective leadership, which is always of interest to me. What's your perspective on how we could
produce more effective leaders for our organizations in the travel industry?
[02:25.660] - David Zipkin
Good question. It's a favorite topic of mine. It really comes down to understanding the client. The
hospitality leisure business is all about coming through and adding value for the clients. And that's
all centers around providing a service that they enjoy, that they're willing to pay for. And in the
luxury category, that need just escalates. And so really a good leader goes all the way back to
the experience. And so if one of the things that I think we need to do more of in this space is
encourage young people to get into hospitality and get into tourism and not just choose it as you
know, I want to be a manager in there after I get out of management school or get your mba, but
really get your hands dirty early and off often in the front lines. Get that job at the hotel, get that
job in that restaurant. Really understand firsthand what it means to provide great service. And you
can only see that by seeing the response and the reaction and the satisfaction of the client that
you're serving. And without that experience, you don't have the true understanding, and then you
can't really build upon that and be a good leader within the hospitality space.
[03:29.370] - David Zipkin
And so I would say that's first and foremost is advice, I guess, for people who either have kids or.
[03:34.390] - Mark Lapidus
So you're saying that you have to have a foundation, right?
[03:36.990] - David Zipkin
Exactly. It's not the type of business. In truth, there are many businesses like this, but especially
for hospitality, where that high touch and understanding and having empathy for the client is
something that you can be born with, but really understanding what that means vis a vis the
service that you're providing for that client. And again, you only really see that firsthand. And the
frontline people are the ones who see it the most. We actually just had a large meeting yesterday,
talking about the big summer season we just had out in Nantucket, Martha's Vineyard, and so
forth, this big season in the summer. And we gathered everyone who was delivering service on
the front lines is a large group, pilots, concierge, and so forth, to hear their thoughts, hear what
they were seeing on the front lines. And we do that regularly because that's where those great
ideas come from. And tweaks to process and procedure and policy are really driven by seeing it
on the front line. So the mistake would be to think that you know better, you know from above,
and to become a leader within the space. Again, I think that experience is critical, of course, in
order to have that empathy and having a strong emotional intelligence and also having a desire
to really learn and understand and having a passion for it.
[04:45.740] - David Zipkin
The people who are successful in this business have a passion for serving, have a passion for
creating an amazing experience for someone else. And that takes a lot of selfless behavior in a
way, of course, when you're in business, you have the commercial driver and the want to create
a business and build a business, but that shouldn't be the main driver. The main driver is really
being passionate about creating an exceptional service for the client.
[05:11.410] - Mark Lapidus
Okay, let's talk aviation. Give us a. A brief history of your company, for starters.
[05:15.220] - David Zipkin
Sure. So I can go all the way back to the beginning. My brother and I are partners in the company.
We founded the company. We were about 1516 years old when our father decided to buy a very
old little four seat Cessna to fly around with, and we got our licenses. Actually, the longer story is
that he used to fly before we were even around. And he flew for. He actually flew for business.
He bought a small plane, and he had factories in different areas, and he was flying around with
that plane when he met my mother. The story goes, he took her up once. It was probably a very
bumpy day, and I think the flight ended with it's me or the airplane conversation. And so he
stopped. And it wasn't until, again, my brother and I were kind of, of age to start learning that he
decided to get back into it. And so we learned to fly. We learned to fly at a young age, and it waswhat we did as a family for fun. We would go out for what they used to call the $100 hamburger.
Fly to Block island from Connecticut for a burger.
[06:15.840] - David Zipkin
I think it's probably the $1000 hamburger nowadays, but that's what we did for fun, and we really
just formed a passion for it and flew as much as we could. So flash forward to my brother and I
getting out of school, sort of wondering what to do. Our father had really groomed us to think
about how to start a business. He was an entrepreneur himself. Every chance he got when we
were kids, he would talk about how we could solve this problem or that problem, and there's a
business around that, and everything from this pencil doesn't stand up straight. Hey, let's build a
better pencil. That kind of thing really ingrained in us from an early age. And so when we were at
the point of deciding what we wanted to do with our lives, it wasn't become a lawyer or doctor or
banker. It was, what kind of business can we start? And we got together. We looked around the
landscape of aviation, which was our passion, and really tried to focus in on what wasn't being
done well. And, you know, at the time, you had a big space between your traditional larger private
jetse, which were doing just fine.
[07:20.120] - David Zipkin
This goes back to the year 2000. Even then, there were large business jets and the net jets of the
world and so forth were doing a great job at it. And it was really pretty mature and crowded space.
But what we saw is that on the short distance, more regional type of flying, New York to Nantucket,
New York to Boston, Florida to Georgia, that sort of thing, the level of equipment, the level of
service was really quite poor. And so what people were doing was anyone who didn't want to
experience it that way. And when I say poor, older aircraft, single pilot operations. And that was
kind of the norm for these types of smaller flights. So what the customer was doing was either
firing up a big jet for that short flight, which is overkill in an economic sense, an environmental
sense, and many others, or they were not going, or they were struggling with the subpar level of
service that existed. And so around the same time, the more modern turboprop concept for
smaller aircraft was coming out. And what that provided was a much higher level of safety for
smaller aircraft. So turbine equipment instead of older piston equipment, the interiors of these
aircraft could be outfitted to feel and look just like those larger jets.
[08:31.810] - David Zipkin
And we decided, let's attack this portion of the market, because we know that in certain areas,
there really is a need that isn't being satisfied. And so we scrounged together just enough money
for a down payment on one single airplane. And I still remember the day we sat in the airplaneand looked at each other and said, now what? So, long story short, we put our shingle out as a
private charter operator. We started flying people anywhere they wanted to go, mostly out of the
New York area, because we're based around here. I'm in Connecticut now. And what we saw was
that it was very well received, much better, higher level of service to pilot turbine aircraft, etcetera.
But what we saw was that a lot of people were going in the same directions on the same route.
So New York, Nantucket, for example, as we grew our client base, client, three, four, five, they all
had the same patterns. And sure enough, they knew each other. And at one point they got
together and said, hey, we're all chartering in the same direction. We don't fill the plane. It's eight
seats. We're only two or three or even one.
[09:38.210] - David Zipkin
Can we get together and share a flight? And we said, sure, as long as somebody's paying the bill,
no problem. And that was the beginning of, and what became our scheduled service, our shuttle
service, where we were flying people, really, in a private charter like way, with the private terminals
and so forth, but they only had to buy one seat at a time. The rest is history. Now, our company
is about 50, 50 private and scheduled, and 30 aircraft flying all over the place, but I'm sure we'll
get to that.
[10:03.850] - Mark Lapidus
How many private aviation carriers are there?
[10:06.490] - David Zipkin
Gosh, I couldn't put a number to it, but it's literally in the thousands. The interesting thing about
the private aviation world is it's pretty fragmented. I mentioned netjets before, is by far the largest
and have a massive amount of market share, and there are a couple others in that category. But
beyond that, most private jet operators are smaller, two, three, four airplanes. And so it's quite
scattered. So there are literally thousands of private jet operators.
[10:34.130] - Mark Lapidus
And what do you guess the percentage is? Business versus leisure travel?
[00:10:39.530] - David Zipkin
Yeah. So overall, I would say it's about, and this might come as a surprise to some people, it's
60% to 70% business travel. And I say that because I think that private aviation, once it hits the
news, it's usually about some celebrity going to this place or something flashy. But the truth is,the vast majority of private aviation is for some form of business. But beyond that, it really depends
on what type of aircraft and which market you're going after. We specialize, as I mentioned, in
more short, regional flying because of that, and also because of the geography. We're in the
northeast corridor for the Cape Cod and the islands. We're in Florida flying to the Bahamas quite
a bit, and then the eastern Caribbean, kind of solving that last mile flight for the smaller islands
because of that. For us, it's probably the end inverse of that. It's about 60% leisure.
[11:31.040] - Mark Lapidus
You don't win the conde nast award by being average, David. So what do you do? What's the
magic sauce?
[11:37.160] - David Zipkin
So, great question. I could talk all day about operational excellence and attention to detail and
infrastructure and all of that, but at our core, we have a long term vision. You know, financially,
we are a private company. We are not answering to the next quarterly income statements and so
forth. And so we're thinking long term. And what that allows us to do is not compromise in any
area. And I think over the years, especially with the larger carriers, you know, you run into a hiccup
here or there and compromises may be made in level of staffing, level of service and so forth to
eke out those profits. Now, profits are nice, I won't say they aren't, but we're in a position being
privately held where we can tolerate those things and not lower our level of service to try to please
some sort of financial results. I think for us, I think that has a lot to do with our consistency of
service and the way that our guests and clients perceive us. We are on time, weather and
mechanical delays and that sort of thing. We are hyper focused on the client experience and
hyper focused on getting the job done, and we're not paying too much attention to what can we
pull out of the equation to make a little bit more money.
[12:44.890] - Mark Lapidus
Do you collaborate with luxury resorts and tourism organizations?
[12:48.390] - David Zipkin
Oh, absolutely. So the luxury tourism industry and sort of ecosystem is critically important to us,
especially given the types of routes that we have in the Caribbean. So in the Caribbean, we have
a home base in San Juan, Puerto Rico, and we serve those folks who are coming off an airline or
a private jethe continuing on to the smaller islands that are inaccessible by the larger aircraft. And
it's heavy on the kind of holiday vacation travel and the luxury world. And so because of that, a
big portion of our business is catering to travel advisors, and we are actually a virtuoso preferredoperator within that organization. And that helps us really spread the good word with those luxury
travel agents who are a big part of, and for some people, this may be a surprise, not in the industry,
but beyond. They are a very significant part of the trip planning for many clients in the luxury
space, much higher percentage than I think most people would imagine. So we work very closely
with those top agencies, again, the consortia, and they are our partners. And beyond that, at the
destinations, we work very, very closely with our hotel partners or villa partners.
[13:52.450] - David Zipkin
We have yachting partners. And it's really not only about spreading the word bi directionally, us
promoting the hotel or the hotel promoting us, but it's really about creating a much better level of
service, coordinating with that villa company or that hotel to create a seamless journey from home
all the way to, you know, their first drink in their room.
[14:12.240] - Mark Lapidus
Tell me about your partnership with JetBlue.
[14:14.560] - David Zipkin
JetBlue is a new partnership for us. It's an interline. So in an interline partnership, what that allows
for is single ticketing all the way through a multi flight journey between two companies. And so it's
single ticketing but it's also baggage transfer, so it really enhances the level of service through
our hubs like San Juan. So with JetBlue, you can now buy a ticket from, let's say, New York all
the way through to virgin Gorda JetBlue plus tradewind. And when you arrive in San Juan, your
luggage is transferred ramp side from there, our plane to ours, so you don't have to retrieve it and
recheck in.
[14:49.290] - Mark Lapidus
Oh, cool.
[14:49.930] - David Zipkin
So really an enhanced experience. It makes it much cleaner on the ground. And, of course, yes,
there are the marketing benefits. You know, having the support of and the reach of a JetBlue is
really quite helpful. We also have interlines with American Airlines, United Airlines, and British
Airways, actually, for our connection through Antigua.
[15:08.250] - Mark LapidusNice. So before we go, I'd love to hear your thoughts about sustainable air travel in terms of
electric planes or anything else that's out there on the horizon.
[15:17.120] - David Zipkin
Great question. It's a hot topic. It's a good topic. Aviation, just like many large industries, is a pretty
big emitter of exhaust and has a high carbon footprint. But there are some really interesting things
coming down the pipe. The first thing is sustainable aviation fuel. And sustainable aviation fuel is
most of what's out there right now is from bioware. There's a process by which that's turned into
combustible fuel that can be used in certain aircraft. The great news there for us is that the aircraft
that we fly are our focus fleet. 30 of our aircraft are a Plautus PC twelve, which is Swiss built, very
modern turboprop. And it was built with sustainable aviation fuel in mind. And so it's what they
call drop in for the SAF, sustainable aviation fuel. So as soon as it becomes more available and
more economical, it's not very available and very expensive right now, but that that will change
over time, and as soon as that becomes feasible, we'll be using it. So we're excited about that.
Beyond that, we participate in and actually pay for carbon offsets. So every single flight that we
do, regardless of whether there's a passenger on board, we make a calculation on how much
carbon footprint.
[16:26.030] - David Zipkin
And we literally pay through a partner called fourair for different projects that have carbon reducing
effects. So reforestation and that sort of thing. We started that program about four years ago, and
again, it's a cost for us. Some aviation providers, some airlines offer it as an add on so you can
choose to pay for carbon offset. We made the decision a while ago and feel very strongly about
it, that we would just cover it, we would just pay for that.
[16:53.370] - Mark Lapidus
And what about electric planes? Is that real or is that science fiction?
[16:57.830] - David Zipkin
It's real. It's not a question of if, it's a question of when. I think that there have been some
optimistic, perhaps overly optimistic views on how soon that's going to happen, but it is going to
happen. But it will be a phased approach. There remain some challenges there. There's some
wonderful companies working on this and have aircraft that are already flying, but there are some
roadblocks. You know, batteries are still very, very heavy. You know, in a car, not such a big deal.
You know, Teslas can be twice as heavy as other cars, and that's fine because you're not goingup and down. But with an airplane, it's a lot of weight to be carrying when you need to power
yourself against gravity.
[17:36.730] - Mark Lapidus
I'd also hate one of the passengers to say, hey, did you remember to charge that battery last
night?
[17:43.310] - David Zipkin
Airplanes are all about redundant systems, so I'm hoping that they have redundancy on the
battery level meter. It's feasible in the way that it is right now. But if and when we have a
breakthrough in kind of the weight to power ratio on batteries, that will make a huge difference for
the aviation world. And really the focus so far because of those limitations is really on shorter
distance, medium to short distance regional flights. And that is our business. So we're very excited
about it because we think that when it does roll out and become feasible, we will be a great test
bed for that. You know, the other challenge from, from a commercial standpoint is the time for
charging most airlines or aviation providers. You want to be able to turn around pretty quickly and
get on your way to the next flight. And so charge time is very important. So that has to continue
to get better and better. But it's coming. It's, again, just a matter of when.
[18:33.760] - Mark Lapidus
So, David, if any of our listeners want to work with you, what's the best way to get a hold of you?
[18:37.480] - David Zipkin
Oh, it depends. If you're looking to fly with tradewind, visit flytradewind.com or call our call center,
which is here in Connecticut. All of our reps are here. 203-267-3305 again, Flytrade, when you
can learn all about us there, you can purchase a flight. On our scheduled flights, you can submit
a request to look at a private charter. And again, private charter is pretty much point to point
wherever you want to go and really get a feel for it. And we welcome it. We would love to show
all of your listeners how we do things.
[19:06.870] - Mark Lapidus
And how about destinations that want to work with you?
[19:09.050] - David ZipkinSame thing. They can go to our website and we have a partnerships area or they can email
[email protected] dot and we'd love to hear from them as well, especially as we
expand. Our newest sort of regional base is down in Florida, and we're starting to really ramp up
our operations out to the Bahamas. And we've got some great partnerships in place already, and
we're really looking to build that out with all of the top properties and top clubs and services
companies and so forth. So look forward to those calls. And the same thing with travel advisors.
If you don't know us already, flytradeone.com. all flights are commissionable and we love working
with you.
[19:44.560] - Mark Lapidus
I didn't know anything about private aviation about 20 minutes ago, so I now know 100% more
than I did. It's really been a pleasure. David. Thanks for taking the time today.
[19:52.770] - David Zipkin
Well, thank you very much, Mark. I appreciate it. I guess I could go on all day, which you probably
realized by now, but I guess we got enough out there.
[20:00.190] - Mark Lapidus
No, it's been very interesting. It's been great. David, you're a terrific guest. Thank you.
[20:04.500] - David Zipkin
Thank you very much, Mark.
[20:05.380] - Mark Lapidus
And that's it for Brand USA talks travel. I'm Mark Lapidus. Thanks for listening.
[20:09.500] - Narrator
Your feedback is welcome. Email us at [email protected] or call 205 793-6256 Brand
USA talks Travel is produced by Asher Meerovich, who also composes music and sound
engineering by Brian Watkins, with extra help from Bernie Lucas, Nthanze Kariuki, and Casey
D'Ambra.
[20:29.760] - NarratorPlease share this podcast with your friends in the travel industry. You may also enjoy many of our archived episodes which you can find on your favorite podcast platform, safe travels.

